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Fauxmage
04-25-2007, 12:17 AM
Potentially Habitable Planet Found

By SETH BORENSTEIN (AP Science Writer)
From Associated Press
April 24, 2007 10:14 PM EDT

WASHINGTON - For the first time astronomers have discovered a planet outside our solar system that is potentially habitable, with Earth-like temperatures, a find researchers described Tuesday as a big step in the search for "life in the universe."

The planet is just the right size, might have water in liquid form, and in galactic terms is relatively nearby at 120 trillion miles away. But the star it closely orbits, known as a "red dwarf," is much smaller, dimmer and cooler than our sun.

There's still a lot that is unknown about the new planet, which could be deemed inhospitable to life once more is known about it. And it's worth noting that scientists' requirements for habitability count Mars in that category: a size relatively similar to Earth's with temperatures that would permit liquid water. However, this is the first outside our solar system that meets those standards.

"It's a significant step on the way to finding possible life in the universe," said University of Geneva astronomer Michel Mayor, one of 11 European scientists on the team that found the planet. "It's a nice discovery. We still have a lot of questions."

The results of the discovery have not been published but have been submitted to the journal Astronomy and Astrophysics.

Alan Boss, who works at the Carnegie Institution of Washington where a U.S. team of astronomers competed in the hunt for an Earth-like planet, called it "a major milestone in this business."

The planet was discovered by the European Southern Observatory's telescope in La Silla, Chile, which has a special instrument that splits light to find wobbles in different wave lengths. Those wobbles can reveal the existence of other worlds.

What they revealed is a planet circling the red dwarf star, Gliese 581. Red dwarfs are low-energy, tiny stars that give off dim red light and last longer than stars like our sun. Until a few years ago, astronomers didn't consider these stars as possible hosts of planets that might sustain life.
The discovery of the new planet, named 581 c, is sure to fuel studies of planets circling similar dim stars. About 80 percent of the stars near Earth are red dwarfs.

The new planet is about five times heavier than Earth. Its discoverers aren't certain if it is rocky like Earth or if its a frozen ice ball with liquid water on the surface. If it is rocky like Earth, which is what the prevailing theory proposes, it has a diameter about 1 1/2 times bigger than our planet. If it is an iceball, as Mayor suggests, it would be even bigger.
Based on theory, 581 c should have an atmosphere, but what's in that atmosphere is still a mystery and if it's too thick that could make the planet's surface temperature too hot, Mayor said.

However, the research team believes the average temperature to be somewhere between 32 and 104 degrees and that set off celebrations among astronomers.

Until now, all 220 planets astronomers have found outside our solar system have had the "Goldilocks problem." They've been too hot, too cold or just plain too big and gaseous, like uninhabitable Jupiter.

The new planet seems just right - or at least that's what scientists think.
"This could be very important," said NASA astrobiology expert Chris McKay, who was not part of the discovery team. "It doesn't mean there is life, but it means it's an Earth-like planet in terms of potential habitability."

Eventually astronomers will rack up discoveries of dozens, maybe even hundreds of planets considered habitable, the astronomers said. But this one - simply called "c" by its discoverers when they talk among themselves - will go down in cosmic history as No. 1.

Besides having the right temperature, the new planet is probably full of liquid water, hypothesizes Stephane Udry, the discovery team's lead author and another Geneva astronomer. But that is based on theory about how planets form, not on any evidence, he said.

"Liquid water is critical to life as we know it," co-author Xavier Delfosse of Grenoble University in France, said in a statement. "Because of its temperature and relative proximity, this planet will most probably be a very important target of the future space missions dedicated to the search for extraterrestrial life. On the treasure map of the Universe, one would be tempted to mark this planet with an X."

Other astronomers cautioned it's too early to tell whether there is water.
"You need more work to say it's got water or it doesn't have water," said retired NASA astronomer Steve Maran, press officer for the American Astronomical Society. "You wouldn't send a crew there assuming that when you get there, they'll have enough water to get back."

The new planet's star system is a mere 20.5 light years away, making Gliese 581 one of the 100 closest stars to Earth. It's so dim, you can't see it without a telescope, but it's somewhere in the constellation Libra, which is low in the southeastern sky during the midevening in the Northern Hemisphere.

"I expect there will be planets like Earth, but whether they have life is another question," said renowned astrophysicist Stephen Hawking in an interview with The Associated Press in Orlando. "We haven't been visited by little green men yet."

Before you book your extrastellar flight to 581 c, a few caveats about how alien that world probably is: Anyone sitting on the planet would get heavier quickly, and birthdays would add up fast since it orbits its star every 13 days.

Gravity is 1.6 times as strong as Earth's so a 150-pound person would feel like 240 pounds.

But oh, the view. The planet is 14 times closer to the star it orbits. Udry figures the red dwarf star would hang in the sky at a size 20 times larger than our moon. And it's likely, but still not known, that the planet doesn't rotate, so one side would always be sunlit and the other dark.

Distance is another problem. "We don't know how to get to those places in a human lifetime," Maran said.

Two teams of astronomers, one in Europe and one in the United States, have been racing to be the first to find a planet like 581 c outside the solar system.

The European team looked at 100 different stars using a tool called HARPS (High Accuracy Radial Velocity for Planetary Searcher) to find this one planet, said Xavier Bonfils of the Lisbon Observatory, one of the co-discoverers.

Much of the effort to find Earth-like planets has focused on stars like our sun with the challenge being to find a planet the right distance from the star it orbits. About 90 percent of the time, the European telescope focused its search more on sun-like stars, Udry said.

A few weeks before the European discovery earlier this month, a scientific paper in the journal Astrobiology theorized a few days that red dwarf stars were good candidates.

"Now we have the possibility to find many more," Bonfils said.
I do get excited about the possibility of life elsewhere than here on Earth, in spite of the cynic inside that says we are only looking becasue we're gonna need a new planet to go out and destroy once we've done away with this one. :sigh:

paul
04-25-2007, 02:27 AM
Sometimes i want there to be life on other plants and believe there is , as well as the Yeti, Loch Ness monster etc, but if there was we woul cage it up and end up fu**ing it up.

1vegan
04-25-2007, 03:20 AM
I think there will be "life" out side our planet.

I think the chances that we'll find and connect with it are very slim though, but it would be wrong to rule out that there is another life form in space imho :agree:

Another question would be, if we "find" it, are we able to recognize it as "life" ?

Let's assume they found our planet, who would the aliens see as the "intelligent life" here? humans?

Oracl
04-25-2007, 04:58 AM
Let's assume they found our planet, who would the aliens see as the "intelligent life" here? humans?
Unlikely. :no:

Douglas Adams summed it up like this:

"It is an important and popular fact that things are not always what they seem. For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much -- the wheel, New York, wars and so on -- whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man -- for precisely the same reasons."
:dolphin: :dolphin: :dolphin: :dolphin: :dolphin: :dolphin: :dolphin: :dolphin: :dolphin:

veggiesosage
04-25-2007, 05:20 AM
George W and Tony B are probably planning a regime change up there as we speak :whistle:

IndyVegan
04-25-2007, 09:57 AM
*big fan of astronomy!

I see it like this, our sun is just one star amongst hundreds of billions of stars in our one galaxy alone. There are hundreds of billions of galaxies in the universe. Probability dictates that would mean a whole lot of "Earths" are out there.

What is really cool is this planet is 10 light years away. All we need to do now is develop the ability to travel at least 10 times the speed of light and we could be there in one year! :lightbulb:

They believe this planet is older than ours, so it would be interesting to see what type of evolutionary process the lifeforms took there, if in fact there are any.

This is really good news.

Fauxmage
04-25-2007, 10:52 AM
I'm sure they've already got enough technology to design a craft that could travel the distance, and support a crew large enough to reproduce enough generations so that people would eventually arrive there. I know that's an overdone sci-fi theme! But I would volunteer to go on such a mission, even if it meant I'd never get to see Earth again, or see the planet we were heading to.
I like to wonder exactly what the sky would look like on this planet. I guess the sky would be a much darker blue, and with the sun being a red dwarf, I expect you could look right at it without burning up your eyeballs. Imagine being able to look right up at a dark red sun, twenty times bigger than ours! It makes me wonder, though, why we, who have evolved with our sun in the sky, didn't develop eyes strong enough to look straight at the sun. I wonder if anyone knows how many animals can look straight at the sun without going blind? I bet reptiles might be able to.

veggiesosage
04-25-2007, 11:10 AM
It makes me wonder, though, why we, who have evolved with our sun in the sky, didn't develop eyes strong enough to look straight at the sun.

Probably for the same reason that, despite having evolved on a planet with big cliffs and tall trees, we haven't evolved legs strong enough to survive falling off the top of them :D

IndyVegan
04-25-2007, 11:30 AM
I linked this story in my myspace blog earlier today, but from a different site. An artist drew a rendering of what the view may look like from the surface of that planet, and I posted that as well. Yes, the red sun would look huge as the planet is very close to its sun. A red star has a cooler temperature than our yellow star (red being the coolest, yellow being in the middle and blue being the hottest). What’s also interesting is that there is a Jupiter sized planet that revolves around that star even closer than the Earth like planet so you’d also get to see an enormous planet in the sky as well (imagine the eclipses). That’s not even counting how many potential moons this planet may have. Must be a beautiful site surely.

There are many interesting scenarios out there. One that must look incredible is a dual star planetary system, where you have two stars, one star revolving around the other. Imagine seeing that in the sky!! It’s also quite possible that the moons of a planet could support life and the actual planet does not. This may be occurring in our very own solar system with some of the moons around Saturn and Jupiter. Some are believed to have lakes of water, which are heated internally by underwater volcanoes. We could see simple one-cell life forms or even some more advanced underwater life. Fascinating.

Gliondrach
04-25-2007, 11:43 AM
There will be life, and intelligent life, somewhere else in our galaxy, as IndyVegan said. But would we want to contact them? Even if they were much more intelligent than we are they might not be more compassionate. We could become lab animals for them. I don't think we could develop something that could travel fast enough to reach any planets outside our solar system. Not without using wormholes - if such things exist.

Bowwowmeow
04-25-2007, 06:48 PM
"It is an important and popular fact that things are not always what they seem. For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much -- the wheel, New York, wars and so on -- whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man -- for precisely the same reasons."
:dolphin: :dolphin: :dolphin: :dolphin: :dolphin: :dolphin: :dolphin: :dolphin: :dolphin:

I've often heard ignorant necrotarians describe sea mammals as the stupidest of all, because they returned to the sea after all the hard work evolution went through to get animals out of the sea.
I think sea mammals are the most blessed of all of us! Who in his right mind would pass up the chance to be a seal or a dolphin! Not me! The only thing I would like better would be to be an aquatic bird. I love to watch the pelicans skim over the ocean's surface. Imagine being able to fly as far as you wanted, and when you got too warm, just dive right into the ocean and keep on flying. :colors:

Some people actually surmise that because we are hairless, and show rudimentary webbing between our thumb and fingers, that we might have begun the evolutionary return journey to the sea along with the other intelligent mammals. Since the whales, dolphins, and seals got there first, who really is the smartest? ;)

Probably for the same reason that, despite having evolved on a planet with big cliffs and tall trees, we haven't evolved legs strong enough to survive falling off the top of them :D
:nahnah:

I linked this story in my myspace blog earlier today, but from a different site. An artist drew a rendering of what the view may look like from the surface of that planet, and I posted that as well.
I had a look at that, Indy, thanks!
I've tried before to look at your myspace, but it used to be blocked, or something. I can see it now, though, and it looks good!

IndyVegan
04-25-2007, 08:25 PM
I had a look at that, Indy, thanks!
I've tried before to look at your myspace, but it used to be blocked, or something. I can see it now, though, and it looks good!


Thanks. Yeah, I used to have it viewable by friends only. Then I was like, what's the point in that?

Fauxmage
04-25-2007, 08:50 PM
Yes, especially when you've got all that good vegan "propaganda" going on there. That definitely deserves a bigger audience.

IndyVegan
04-25-2007, 11:03 PM
I can imagine there are planets out there when the entire human/human-like population is vegan.

Oracl
04-25-2007, 11:52 PM
I can imagine there are planets out there when the entire human/human-like population is vegan.
What a wonderful thought! :agree: :yea:

IndyVegan
04-26-2007, 02:40 AM
I meant to say *WHERE, not *when. :sigh:

Oracl
04-26-2007, 03:28 AM
I meant to say *WHERE, not *when. :sigh:
We knew what you meant! :agree: :)

Gliondrach
04-26-2007, 04:40 PM
Does anyone believe in parallel universes? If they do exist and there are an unlimited number of them, there will be Earth-like planets which are entirely vegan.