Need some advice about omni friends

[VeganD]

What do you guys do when it comes to making new friends i had a long time friend but slowly started seeing him less and less because of the fact he eats KFC and mac shit do you think this was right to do

I don’t really know any vegans in real life and only a few vegetarians all the people i know like 95% of the world are flesh eaters, this causes me great problems because i kind of don’t want to know people like this

I have tried showing them videos and stuff but you just got to understand some people know the way animals are killed and will not change no matter what you show them it’s just them and it’s very difficult to change people like this

And some people might say you shouldn’t try and change people just accept the way they are but this is hard for me as i have seen the videos many times and i f***ing hate people that eat animals because their the ones who are paying for them to be killed

They always say their not the ones killing them so it doesn’t matter yet that maybe true but their still paying someone else to do their dirty work for them....... right

Eating an animal to me is like eating a human no difference what so ever we are all living beings

Maybe you guys don’t view it like me but when i hear of someone eating like baby ducklings i am so f***ing mad about it i mean come on man this is f**king sick this is like eating a human baby that’s how i see it

I see it as the world has just gone crazy or maybe it’s just me

I don’t like the food chain I think its stupid and if it’s a food chain and everyone is eating everyone why is there no one eating us beside Hannibal Lecter and maybe a few others

Have you guys ever seen the wildlife programs where the animals have been walking for days and days just to get a drink of water and when they finally get to the river a crocodile comes up and kills them i saw one where the crocodile took over an hour to kill it just imagine the pain that poor animal was in

F**k the food chain its shit i don’t know why it was ever made this way please someone help me try and understand better if god put us here and he loves animals because he loves all living creatures why did he make it like this

some weekends i might get a Chinese like rice without the egg and some chips and this guy walks in takes like 5 minutes viewing the menu and after having a good long read decides to go for quarter duckling even been in there on times when i have heard people say can i have spare ribs please i am like WTF spare ribs???

What a crazy world

[Gliondrach]

I've said before that I don't want to have meat eaters as friends. But I try to understand them. I was once a meat eater. I actually worked in a slaughter house when I was 15. I saw pigs being killed. But it was a few years after that that I became a vegetarian. And then a few years until I became a vegan. Anyone can change. It just takes the right trigger at the right time. I had been thinking about becoming a vegetarian for quite some time. I wasn't sure if it really was healthy. Like most people, I had been brainwashed into thinking we needed meat. The trigger for me was one night when the family had gone to bed. It was the Sunday before a bank holiday Monday. My mother had left a chicken in the kitchen for next day's dinner. The chicken still had her head. There was a piece of corn in the beak. It was such a pathetic image that I knew I couldn't eat that little body. I actually spoke to the chicken and said that I wouldn't eat any of the meat and that I wouldn't eat any meat again. The next day I just had the vegetables.

Even seeing pigs being killed just two feet from me, hearing their squeals as they were shackled before stunning, smelling their blood and having their warm blood splashed on my hands and arms and face didn't put me off meat. So, seeing a few videos will not change the minds of the majority of people. Not until they are ready. They can know the truth. But they have to be ready. Everyone is different and there is no way of knowing what the trigger will be for any person. They won't even know themselves.

The best you can do is to be an example of what they could become. Trying to force anyone will just have the opposite effect.

As for God. God knows! I believe in God but I don't think that we can know what any plan is. The only sense I can make of suffering is that, however bad it is, it won't matter a thousand years after it's happened. No suffering lasts forever but I believe that life does. And, I believe that God is us. And God suffers everything that anyone suffers. I see us as like characters in God's dream. When we dream every person in that dream is created by us and is actually part of us. Even real people that we know in waking life. In the dream it is not them. In the dream they are our creations and whatever they feel, in the dream, is actually really felt by us. Perhaps there are no individuals. Perhaps everything is God and only God feels anything. We are no more than characters in God's dream.

Or perhaps not. But that is the only thing that makes any sense to me in this mad world.

[Keykeypie]

Jo....I don't really have any advice, but I see myself in every sentence of your post.....I feel exactly the same confusion at why people can be so callous.
I don't believe in god though.....but I have to admit what Gliondrach said
was certainly very interesting.

I keep thinking that even though human nature might not change there
will certainly come a time when people will find it unbelievable that their ancestors actually ate dead animal bodies......and this won't even be because
they're more compassionate......it will be more of an aesthetic thing....if that's
the right word....you know just like now people walking along a beach wouldn't dream of grabbing a dead fish that had washed up on the sand and start eating it.

But I also feel that I cannot be friends with people who are supporting
the animal killers in the meat industry.......I can & am pleasant to them
in business....but no way will I socialize with them on my own time.

However, that's just a personal choice and I really think it's much better
for vegans to socialize with omnis.....you know, set an example. I'm takling
about friends but I think it would be almost impossible to be in a serious love
relationship with a meat eater......at least for someone who feels as strongly
as you.

We really need to concentrate and try to come up with a method of what, how, really works.....like with Gliondrach seeing the chicken

Was it because it was in your home? Or the bit of corn...or....or....I'd
really like to know......because with me it was something much less dramatic
....I just read a pamphlet that said if you call your self an animal lover & continue to eat them....you're a phony......and I knew the truth when I saw it.

Also.....we have to be a little careful with the real graphic stuff because
the meat industry will use stuff like that to promote "humane slaughter" and
all that crap......when the bottom line really IS......we have no right to enslave any species.....no matter what or how humanely they're treated.

[Oracl]

What do you guys do when it comes to making new friends i had a long time friend but slowly started seeing him less and less because of the fact he eats KFC and mac shit do you think this was right to do
Absolutely I think this was the right thing to do. :agree: I see no future in the relationship if he won't change. :no: Finding new friends is not easy for me but the last good friends I made (a married couple in this case) came to a vegan meet-up and we just 'clicked'. :) Maybe you could try to get to some sort of vegan/animal rights gatherings? :rubchin:

[Gliondrach]

Another thing about suffering - when animals are hunted by their natural predators, in their natural habitats, they might not suffer as much as they would in slaughterhouses or vivisection laboratories. They can go into shock and this can lessen their pain. I remember reading something that Jim Corbett once said about the time when a tiger or a leopard pounced on him. He said that he felt no pain and no fear. I think he said that he felt a strange calmness and acceptance. It might be similar to what happens to us when we are engaged in some exciting or dangerous activity. We can be injured without even knowing it and without feeling any pain, due to all the adrenaline in our system. I like to think that animals experience that when a lion or shark gets them. They will struggle because that is a natural reaction in most but they might not feel as much pain as we think they do. But when animals are in slaughterhouses, laboratories, or on the decks of trawlers - away from what instincts and experience tell them is natural - they will suffer pain and fear.


Keykeypie, I don't know exactly why the sight of the chicken changed me. The bit of corn in the beak was probably an important part of it. I had seen chickens hanging up in butchers' shops many times, still with their heads on. It might be that the bit of corn reminded me that the chicken had pecked at it as one of her last acts before she was killed. I had been thinking about going veggie for quite a long time. I hated the cruelty of meat production. I had been reading about vegetarianism but wasn't quite convinced that it was healthy. I think there may have been a feeling of guilt and hypocrisy, too. My brother once said to me that if I was concerned about cruelty to animals I should be a vegetarian. I've only just remembered that. I think that I needed to have the feeling of guilt, a growing feeling of compassion, and the accusation of hypocrisy. If all three hadn't been there I might have waited longer. I would eventually have become vegetarian but it might have taken many months longer.

[VeganD]

Thanks for the reply guys

Very interesting post Gliondrach i like the dream bit sometimes i also think the same


Keykeypie shame you don’t live near me you could pop round for a drink lol you sound just like the type i would want as a vegan friend do you have skype we could have a chat on there sometime if you like buddy

I know loads of people but the thing is 0 of them are vegan as everyone knows it’s very difficult to find vegans in real life there are some but i guess you got to find them

Oracl Yep there is a group somewhere round here but got to find out more i still think its like 15 miles away but will need to find out more about this

[Keykeypie]

I had been reading about vegetarianism but wasn't quite convinced that it was healthy.

Ah....so this really IS a concern for some people? But .....but, don't most young people, especially men, feel like health is the last thing they ever worry about? Or is that just me? I couldn't care less about health.

What we need to do I think, is to try to get the point across that
eating the insides of cut up animal parts is just plain too disgusting.

Like one time many many years ago before I was vegan, I got a job at a truck stop down south & at the same time they hired a new cook:chef: .....a young goodlooking guy from Boston.....and when I say "goodlooking"....I mean OOOOOHHHH BABY!:flirt:
...but wait....that's another story. Anyway one of the first tables I waited
on was some truckers and one southern guy ordered something I didn't understand. It sounded like he said brains and eggs......but of course that
couldn't be....or could it? Yes, in fact, that's exactly what he wanted.....
and when I went to tell the cook HE looked at ME like I was crazy......I mean being from up North we never heard of eating hog brains....
but another waitress said "Oh yeah....they're good & she got a can down &
proceeded to show the cook how to fry them up on the grill. Then she tells
us.....we should try some. And Bobby & I looked at each other and just shook
our heads in disgust....NO WAY!!:blecch: :blecch: And you understand, this had nothing do
do with compassion for animals.
Like I said.....I'm sure someday all people will see meat in the same way
Bobby & I saw those brains..........so I guess we need to keep reminding people that milk contains pus & also meat eaters smell as bad to vegans &
as smokers do to people who don't smoke.

Jo....I don't have that skye thing and I'm just too slow a typer to do IMs
but email me anytime...I'd love to hear from you.:wave:

[Oracl]

Like one time many many years ago before I was vegan, I got a job at a truck stop down south & at the same time they hired a new cook :chef: .....a young goodlooking guy from Boston.....and when I say "goodlooking"....I mean OOOOOHHHH BABY! :flirt:
...but wait....that's another story.
That story sounds much too interesting to leave untold! :agree: :ears: :hyper: But that would be hijacking jo's thread I guess? ;) :D

[VeganD]

Please feel free to share

[thevegantwins]

Hey jo

Socializing has been a difficult aspect since so many social events center around food. I mostly avoid events where mass slaughter is being served which means I'm pretty isolated from my extended family (no loss there :rolleyes:) and work events (no loss there either ;) ). The few friends that I have now that I socialize with are people I've met over the internet the past few years. There is always the safety issue though.

I hope you don't mind the question but how old are you? I'm asking because there are some outlets for young people who are vegan both in the US and UK. It's difficult meeting like-minded people even if one is 'typical' but for those of us who can not tolerate being around cruelty, murder and other horrors, it is even more difficult.

[dreamer]

Jo, I know what you mean too. I haven't even considered showing anyone "shocking" videos (as I don't want to see them myself), but I have discussed the reasons for veganism with those that I thought might be influenced. (So one of my brother's family hasn't heard a peep since that brother once told me, "animals are for protection or consumption...those are their only purposes.") Those people who were friends--not family--and didn't seem to care at all, I have a hard time being around. (For example, the "semi-vegetarian" who still eats "seafood," dairy, and eggs even though she's been given numerous reasons why those are as cruel as livestock meat.) A couple of people I've remained friends with are respectful--though not complete veggies--and often even eat veggie when we go out together! Then there are my family members (whom I enjoy being around otherwise) who still eat meat, dairy, eggs and refuse to believe anything I tell them about how animals are treated.

Keykeypie, I certainly hope that eventually people will realize just how sentient all God's creatures are and be horrified not just by the "disgusting" nature of eating that as food, but also the disgusting nature of eating fellow creatures...like it seems was mentioned on Star Trek: The Next Generation You also mentioned men being more likely to use heatlh as their reason for being vegan, well I dated a vegan who said he cared about animal treatment, but usually gave health reasons for his food choices and seemed to not be as concerned (through his behavior...such as not taking his injured cat to the vet) as he said he was...we're no longer dating. I think I would find it almost impossible to date an omnivore and perhaps even a vegetarian, especially if they continued despite knowing the TRUTH. I agree that it's best to try to educate omnivores, but I have a hard time being friends/significant others who don't have my perspective on this issue!

[Phoenix]

What do you guys do when it comes to making new friends i had a long time friend but slowly started seeing him less and less because of the fact he eats KFC and mac shit do you think this was right to do

I don’t really know any vegans in real life and only a few vegetarians all the people i know like 95% of the world are flesh eaters, this causes me great problems because i kind of don’t want to know people like this ...

... I see it as the world has just gone crazy or maybe it’s just me ...
Jo, the only other vegan I know in real life is my housemate (who became a vegan the same day I did), so I sympathise with your problem. I used to have a couple of close friends who were omni's (I was l/o veggie at the time) but they were very considerate and when we ate together, they never ate meat - basically they would eat whatever I ate. :)

It's a shame if you are not compatible with old friend anymores, it's better for everyone to go your own way.

... meat eaters smell as bad to vegans & as smokers do to people who don't smoke...
Thanks for that, Keykeypie. I have been wanting to ask you guys about your experience with "odors". :o My sense of smell seems to have become a lot more sensitive in the past year, and I find (clean & tidy) omnis "uncomfortable" to be around in an enclosed space. :faint:

[Charmagne]

I couldn't find a thread for vegan food questions - but I could very easily have overlooked it so I'll post in the advice thread and please move moderation if we had a thread for it.

I was wondering what kind of bread you find really appealing. I was at whole foods a couple of days ago replenishing my supply of cream cheese and there are many to choose from. I don't want to buy a loaf that I'll throw away since it is only for me. I have been using what I used before becoming vegan (stone ground wheat) which didn't show any animal ingredients when I checked the label.

Just thought some of you might have some suggestions.

[Fauxmage]

Can you get Rudi's at Whole Foods Charmagne? Rudi's makes several different kinds of breads that are vegan (and a few with honey, so check the labels) and very much like typical higher quality grocery store breads. I like the rye very much. I really love sourdough bread the best, though. Rudi's makes a sourdough, but its not like bakery style.

Its always good to keep bread in the fridge, though, if you can't eat it all up quickly. I can't always eat up a loaf of Rudi's before it gets moldy, which happens when breads aren't full of chemicals to keep mold from appearing.

[my3labs]

I love sourdough...now I'm craving an avocado & cucumber sandwich.

[my3labs]

Speaking of sandwiches....when I first became vegan I tried the sliced tofurky stuff and hated it. I see that they now have a pepper turkey and am seriously thinking of buying some. Since it's been nearly two years, maybe I'd actually eat it this time.

Any reviews?

[dreamer]

I was wondering what kind of bread you find really appealing. I was at whole foods a couple of days ago replenishing my supply of cream cheese and there are many to choose from. I don't want to buy a loaf that I'll throw away since it is only for me. I have been using what I used before becoming vegan (stone ground wheat) which didn't show any animal ingredients when I checked the label.

Just thought some of you might have some suggestions.
I like Rudi's too. I also just bought some (I think, I'll have to go home and check) Arnold's Dutch country whole wheat bread. I didn't notice any obvious animal ingredients, though it does have high fructose corn syrup:sigh: I like the taste and it's nice and soft (I like soft bread and it's softer than Rudi's)...it also has more fiber than most of the Rudi's breads.

[thevegantwins]

I always buy Ezekiel sprouted grain bread. It's fantastic but doesn't taste right unless it is toasted or at room temperature. It's healthier than regular bread as well. We also love Alvarado St. Sprouted Onion & Poppyseed bagels. Both of those are pricey as well but I get the Ezekiel at Trader Joe's for $2.99 a loaf.

[thevegantwins]

Charmagne,

Whole Foods has a bread in their bakery, called something like Ancient Grain Bread. It's really delicious. Their baguette is good as well but would be difficult for a sandwich.

[dreamer]

I always buy Ezekiel sprouted grain bread. It's fantastic but doesn't taste right unless it is toasted or at room temperature. It's healthier than regular bread as well. We also love Alvarado St. Sprouted Onion & Poppyseed bagels. Both of those are pricey as well but I get the Ezekiel at Trader Joe's for $2.99 a loaf.
See how different people's tastes can be...I tried Ezekiel breads and I couldn't stand them! I guess it's because I like soft, doughy bread and it's definitely NOT that:no:

[thevegantwins]

Did you ever try it toasted? It gets a nutty, crunchy texture. Tastes fantastic with my avocado spread. :yum:

I figure get the kids hooked on healthy bread now so they'll hopefully never develop a taste for unbreads like Wonder. :blecch:

[dreamer]

Nope, never tried it toasted...like I said, I like soft bread. I even make cinnamon "toast" with Rudi's apple spice bread, only I don't let it get "crunchy" toasty because I don't like crunchy bread. But I'm glad you like it and your kids aren't hooked on deadly white breads:thumbsup:

[thevegantwins]

Yikes, I'd go into withdrawal if I went a few days without crunchy toast. I like it so crunchy, your teeth hurt a bit biting down :lol:

[dreamer]

Yikes:dizzy: :D :psing:

[Gliondrach]

Is that Ezekiel bread like that very thinly sliced rye bread that looks as if it is made of grains pressed together? I don't like that.

Sometimes I like toast to have burnt bits of crust. I know it's not healthy but it tastes nice-ish. Just now and again.

[Fauxmage]

Speaking of sandwiches....when I first became vegan I tried the sliced tofurky stuff and hated it. I see that they now have a pepper turkey and am seriously thinking of buying some. Since it's been nearly two years, maybe I'd actually eat it this time.

Any reviews?
I really like all the Tofurkey slices, but the pepper is good, so is the smoked. I like sandwiches with Tofurkey with lots of crunchy veggies like cucumbers and lettuce piled on, and Vegenaise, of course. :yum:

[paul]

the smoked sounds really good:yum: :dribble:

[Charmagne]

Thank all of you for the advice. I have made a list and will check out what they have. I love high fiber too so crunchy is good for me!

I don't think our whole foods market is part of the chain of Whole Foods Markets. At least when is Googled Whole Foods Market for Mississippi NONE came up. Figures though - I envy all of you that have vegan restaurants and such. It is called Five Seasons Whole Foods Market but it carries all the vegan things - mayonnaise - cream cheese, Tofurkey slices, etc. Anyway - it's the closest I can get without going to Mobile which is 60 miles away.

They had many breads - that's why I wondered what was good for everyone. Gliondrach - why is burned edges of toast unhealthy?

[Gliondrach]

Do you have to meet them? Can't you be elsewhere when they visit? It wouldn't do any good to lose your temper because it would make him defensive. You could say that you are a vegan and you don't agree with what he does. Apart from that, there's not much else you can do. You won't be able to convert him without long and frequent contact. You might be able to plant a seed by being calm and explaining why you are vegan.

[Gliondrach]

If they're just there for the day, a vet's appointment should do.

[Gliondrach]

Very contagious.

[Oracl]

:agree: ;) :ill:

[Oracl]

That can be nasty! :shakehead: You'll need a blood-stained apron and a horrible, evil-sounding, mock-jolly laugh to convince people! :blecch: