addiction

[Abrennan]

I have this theory that people have a psychological addiction to the consumption of animals.

Many meatatarians say that they couldn't even imagine not eating other animals.

I have seen many meatatarians become visibly angry if the subject of not eating meat comes up. Infact the funniest ones are the ones who coma and ask me about being vegan and then get angry about whatever response I give.

Another thing that makes me think they have an addiction is the strange illogic that they use when engaging in a debate, when unable to come up with any defence oft their habit they demand to know why someone who would not eat a creature would eat a veggie sausage, or a veggie (burger) pattie.

I have heard that cheese has been shown to be physically addictive but not flesh. That doesn't preclude the possibility of a psychological addiction.

what do you think

[Pob]

I think it's more to do with fear of change.

As a meateater they are part of the majority (at least in "West"), so why should they have to defend their opinions (or even really have opinions)? It's far easier to live in ignorance (or at least to pretend to) than actually face facts and change your life.

It's quite a step to go against the norm and stand up and say no to years of social conditioning.

[Abrennan]

Thanks Pob. I agree with what you say, I think that is a major part of it, change is difficult for almost all of us.


I still like my theory though it came to me in situations like this. Some meatatarian comes to visit. alla the food is vegan, they don't eat ANYTHING. Not ANYTHING. I have seen it many times. No confrontation, no debate, no discussion of the downside to flesh eating, and they don't eat because, as they admit, there is no animal flesh. That is weird.

whaddyaya think?


Antony:whistle:

[Candy]

Robert Cohen talks about the addictive nature of milk at notmilk.com.

[Abrennan]

Yeah mebbe that's where I read about it, I think there is other research that shows that cheese is more addictive because ofthe concentration of compounds.

It seems to me that as well as the biological addictive process it seems that people can be addicted to behaviour.

I recall reading in a book years ago where a university did tets on humans in a large maze they had built. Standard stuff, running the maze to find the prize at the end.

They found after a while that people didn't need the prize at the end they would line up to run the maze over and over without any extra payoff.

THEN, when the study was closed, people bagan to break into the maze at night to run the maze, it happened night after night until they dismantled it.

I recognise there has been an indoctrination program for years about flesh consumption, mebbe that's what drives them.

Fortunately for us we are deautomatised (as the SUfi teacher Idries Shah put it) in regard to our food.

whaddaya reckon?

[Oracl]

I have seen many meatatarians become visibly angry if the subject of not eating meat comes up.
I have experienced this reaction from "meatatarians" too, Abrennan. :agree: It's quite interesting. :rubchin:

I think people can be addicted to a set of behaviours/lifestyle and do not like the idea of having to go without anything. People also don't like to be different from the mainstream way of thinking, it frightens them. :rolleyes:

[Oracl]

Hello and welcome, Pob! :wave:

It's far easier to live in ignorance (or at least to pretend to) than actually face facts and change your life.
Very true. :agree: I know so many people like this. :(

[thevegantwins]

My husband has been vegan for 4 years and still has a physical craving for dead animal, so he tells me. He was always much more of a dead animal/animal waste product eater than I was so maybe that's why he has a physical craving and I don't. I can believe it's an addiction but probably based in social/emotional upbringing rather than an chemical addiction.

[dreamer]

I think it's possible to be at least partly physical. At least here in the U.S. the animals are pumped full of hormones, antibiotics, etc. that could be addictive I would think. Even when the animals are not pumped full of this stuff, they inherently have hormones and other chemicals (neurotransmitters, etc.) that might cause a person to be physically addicted. See especially here: http://www.pcrm.org/magazine/gm03summer/gm03summer02.html:professor:

[Abrennan]

Yeah, physical craving developed by a social/emotional behavioural pattern. I have heard this before from others. Not something I ever had myself. I had some commjunication witha doctor who had been quoted in a newspaper article here in Oz about food addiction. He thought there was no physical basis for food addiction and he says he hadn't come accross anyone he thought was emotionally/psychologically addicted. He was, of course, a meatatarian himself, poor fellow.

Antonytarian


My husband has been vegan for 4 years and still has a physical craving for dead animal, so he tells me. He was always much more of a dead animal/animal waste product eater than I was so maybe that's why he has a physical craving and I don't. I can believe it's an addiction but probably based in social/emotional upbringing rather than an chemical addiction.

[Abrennan]

Thanks for the great link Dreamer. I might have to get a copy of that book. Mebbe I had read Barnard before talking about the cheese addiction.

This could be important information for us, addicts are not in control of their behaviour.

whaddaya think

antony thinking :dizzy:

I think it's possible to be at least partly physical. At least here in the U.S. the animals are pumped full of hormones, antibiotics, etc. that could be addictive I would think. Even when the animals are not pumped full of this stuff, they inherently have hormones and other chemicals (neurotransmitters, etc.) that might cause a person to be physically addicted. See especially here: http://www.pcrm.org/magazine/gm03summer/gm03summer02.html:professor:

[Phoenix]

Well, I was a vegetarian "cheeseaholic" for 25 years. :goodbad:

I became a vegan in January & for a while I had some pretty nasty withdrawl symptoms. Thankfully the cheese and the craving for cheese is well & truly out of my system now! :agree:

[moie]

i had the same problem- lacto/ovo cheese addict for 17 years... my vegan withdrawal was more physical and only lasted a few days...

i have noticed in my sister that she gets really cranky when she doesn't get her dairy, especially cheese, and she doesn't think that she feels full when she eats a vegan meal. then she whines about me making her feel guilty about her not eating cheese that day..

[Delicious]

i have noticed in my sister that she gets really cranky when she doesn't get her dairy, especially cheese
HER dairy? Interesting visual (sees her hooked up to an automatic breast pump and using HER dairy to make cheeses and the like...) :rubchin:

[Bowwowmeow]

Isn't it funny how people say things like "don't ask me to give up my "(insert name of animal product)". I never think of things I eat as "my" soymilk, or "my" strawberries. Or even "my morning cup of coffee".
It makes me think of the Gollum from the Lord of the Rings always going "my Preciousssssssssssssss".

It looks like a very good sign of addiction if you find yourself thinking of any of the things you ingest each day in this way. There are things we need to eat, and requirements that must be met each day, in order for us to stay healthy. We never seem to get addicted to these healthy foods, though, think of them as "ours", or fear being deprived of them. I would add addicitve dietary substances to my list of things we eat that are not food. I don't think natural, healthy food is addicitve in the pure sense of creating a chemical dependency, and withdrawal symptoms when it is removed from the diet. How many people go into withdrawal if they stop eating carrots or apples? And yet there are so many people who claim that they get "sick" when removing flesh or milk subtances from their daily diets. Another good reason not to think of these things as food.

[Caprita]

Although I've only been vegan for a few weeks, I've encountered such problems. While my parents can understand why I chose to go vegan, my grandmother fails to do so. She and her husband live with my parents and I, and she's the one who cooks, most of the time. She has eaten meat all her life, and she says she couldn't live without it. Her husband is a vegetarian, although he doesn't talk about food very often, and I haven't given any thought to his eating habits.

However, I don't really believe that old dogs cannot learn new tricks. I know that at a certain age, and depending of one's education, it is very hard to give up a habit one has kept during all one's life. Especially when vegetables are so unimportant in the life of people such as my grandma. It does seem that she's addicted to meat.

Right now she's telling me I will not benefit from soy milk and that what I eat has no vitamins, although she's the one who puts vegetables on my plate. :rolleyes:

[thevegantwins]

I hate when people tell you that they were vegetarian or vegan but had to stop because they were too sick and their doctor told them to start eating dead stuff or animal secretions. Anyone ever heard of detox? Ridding your body of toxins?

[Caprita]

I hate when people tell you that they were vegetarian or vegan but had to stop because they were too sick and their doctor told them to start eating dead stuff or animal secretions. Anyone ever heard of detox? Ridding your body of toxins?

It's the exact other way around with me. My family doctor doesn't support the consumption of animal ingredients, and has never prescribed me any such medicine.

I believe that people who stopped being veg*an because of what this or that doctor said don't have a very strong will. There *must* be veg*an alternatives for whatever animal product the doctor prescribes. I would hate to actually see someone have to let go of what they believe in because of...:no: