Are vegans more spiritual than omnis?

[Phoenix]

Here goes. I'm not religious but I have strong spiritual beliefs. I believe in God and Goddess. And I believe that our planet is a living, aware being that is adversly affected by negative human emotions (particularly hate, anger and intolerance).

Anyway, one of my favorite authors claims that what people eat has no effect on their spirituality because physical-is-physical and spiritual-is-spiritual. That makes sense to me - however, it seems to me that what people choose to eat frequently is a reflection of their spirituality! Isn't compassion a spiritual quality? I don't want to sit in judgement (I'm far from perfect), but how people can claim to love animals and yet eat them? :sigh: I just don't understand. :no:

So are gentle, compassionate vegans more spiritual than the average omnivore?

[Oracl]

Yes, I feel sure that vegans are more spiritual than the average omnivore. :agree: I think compassion is a spiritual quality. :) I too fail to understand how people can claim to love animals and yet still choose to eat some of them. :confused:

(I stopped being religious after attending a Catholic convent school as a child! ;) :D )

[Tiggerwoos]

I do believe vegans are, because of the fact we view every living being as worthwhile with a soul and value the life of all.

I have noticed that while I am Christian (although not a practicing one) since going vegan I have looked deeper into the spiritual side of life whereas previous I had no interest in yoga or reiki, whereas now it is a way of life to me.

I think vegans are more spiritual as they have a consience and question the ethics of life more than your normal person down the street. Just my two cents worth anyway.:)

[Starry]

No, of course Vegans aren't more spiritual than Omnivores. I am a practising healer and know many fine healers that eat meat and fish. We may be more caring to animals than others (or course!), but we aren't more spiritual.

[ChenLi]

Don't know about spirituality, but I'd say they're more morally superior in some respects...

[Bowwowmeow]

Here goes. I'm not religious but I have strong spiritual beliefs. I believe in God and Goddess. And I believe that our planet is a living, aware being that is adversly affected by negative human emotions (particularly hate, anger and intolerance).
That's exactly the way I think too, Phoenix.
I think that there are spiritual omnis, but I think that the proportion of spiritual vegans is higher. I also think that amongst spiritual people, vegans are definitely more enlightened spiritually.

My Pa, (my Dad's Dad) was a very spiritual person, and a natural healer, though an omni. He believed in something he called "world thought", which was the involuntary but collective viewpoint of the majority of thinking persons, and it had power to negatively affect anyone unaware of the need to reject it. I also think that animals sense this, without of course being influenced to go along with it as people are, and that it most certainly does affect the world around us in a negative way. If everyone were loving, compassionate, and gentle, "world thought" would be something to be embraced. But sadly most people are selfish, thoughtless, and opportunistic, and unaware of the collective psychic assault this shared thought pattern is having upon the living world. :(

[Phoenix]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, folks. :nanakiss:

Starry, no offence was intended :soap: (and hopefully none was taken). I was very tired when I wrote that and I probably could / should have expressed myself better. However, I am still mystified by people who claim to love animals yet eat an omni diet. (btw, I was a l/o vegetarian for twenty-five yrs before becoming a vegan in January this year.) My mother was a very spiritual woman but also an omni.

Prior to posting, I had been reading a book by an author who tends to take the moral / spiritual high-ground and often writes about how much she loves nature, animals etc & how disgusted she is by people eating "venison" ... yet she is an omnivore herself. :confused:

BWM, it sounds like your Pa was a very wise man. :agree: And thank you for putting onto words what I had tried (and failed) to explain politely. :psmooch:

Thanks everyone. :hug:

[Gliondrach]

Vegans have more compassion, which is a very important part of spirituality. Ethical vegans spread compassion further than most to include insects that many people would just step on unthinkingly or even deliberately.

[Ped Ant]

....insects that many people would just step on unthinkingly or even deliberately.
:no: :grumble:

[Peas'nHominy]

Well, I just don't know. I can speak about me, though. :) I absolutely feel much closer to God. It's not that I feel like I'm "better-than-thou," but I feel more aware that He loves me, and I have more love and appreciation for God since going vegan -- loving and appreciating these precious and wonderful beings who, I believe, are precious to and loved by God. I ponder now, how could I love the artist and hate his art? Does not the art reflect the artist? How could I say "I cherish you" while murdering someone you love? My actions would not match my words.

(...this is just to share what's in my heart, so please do not be offended if you disagree)

[Oracl]

Beautifully put, Peas. :colors:

[Tiggerwoos]

Yes very apt Peas. I can definitely understand that.:)

[Phoenix]

Vegans have more compassion, which is a very important part of spirituality. Ethical vegans spread compassion further than most to include insects that many people would just step on unthinkingly or even deliberately.
Well said. :agree: How can people deliberately step on insects? :sigh:
I absolutely feel much closer to God. It's not that I feel like I'm "better-than-thou," but I feel more aware that He loves me, and I have more love and appreciation for God since going vegan -- loving and appreciating these precious and wonderful beings who, I believe, are precious to and loved by God. I ponder now, how could I love the artist and hate his art? Does not the art reflect the artist? How could I say "I cherish you" while murdering someone you love? My actions would not match my words.
That's beautiful. :colors:

[Abrennan]

I'm not sure that being Vegan makes you more compassionate.

Most of the Vegans I met years ago revealed themselves to be far from compassionate in their interactions with others.

I question if you can have compassion for one group of beings but not for another. In that circumstance I start thinking that the quality that people take for compassion really isn't.

And spirituality, I don't think vegans ar more spiritual than others. I wonder what being spiritual really is.

:smallheart:

[dreamer]

So are gentle, compassionate vegans more spiritual than the average omnivore?
I would have to say yes to this statement. So it's not just being vegan, it is also being compassionate and vegan--perhaps leading to greater empathy--that would make you more likely to "sense" the spiritual side of life. I too have noticed, as Abrennan mentioned, that some vegans are far from compassionate...some seem more concerned with proving how superior they are or how humans are horrible (thus do not deserve compassion) or that some animals deserve compassion while others don't (which really doesn't seem vegan to me--but I'm far from perfect) or some are vegan for health reasons and could care less about the ethical aspects. None of these groups seem especially compassionate to me. A few vegans I've talked to (via message boards) even seem anti-spiritual, bashing anything that doesn't fit a narrow reductionistic "scientific" view of life--though many of those were not compassionate either. So I'm not sure if just being a vegan makes you more spiritual or compassionate, but it would make sense if you were following the idea of being vegan by such vegans as Joanne Stepaniak(http://vegsource.com/):
Being vegan is at once complex, challenging, and rewarding because each element of a vegan's life is chosen with conscious awareness. All options are weighed in terms of achieving the highest good possible. This is not to say that vegans are "perfect" or that "perfection" is even attainable or desirable. This is an imperfect world and we are an imperfect species. However, aspiring to do our best, to ceaselessly reach for compassionate solutions, to strive to attain justice for all life - human and non-human - to live honestly and respectfully, and to lovingly care for our Earth, are far more realistic and reasonable pursuits than dwelling on impractical issues of perfection.

[Abrennan]

I think that some of us, present company excepted, believe we are compassionate but we are not, we are angry.

Many vegans are seperatists. Limiting their social interactions with non-vegans, if we were truelly compassionate we would want to reach out to them in order that they might 'see the light'

Any people I have met who I considered to be spiritual didn't draw any boundaries between themselves and those who didn't agree with them.

It's easy to be compassionate for those we like, but very difficult to be compassionate for those we do not like.

any thoughts?

:whistle:

[Bowwowmeow]

It's easy to be compassionate for those we like, but very difficult to be compassionate for those we do not like.

any thoughts?

:whistle: I remember posting something like that on another forum, Antony, but I think the thread ended up getting deleted. It was something about the true test of compassion not being that you can show it to your friends, but that you can show it to your enemies.

I do not find it difficult to have compassion for people I don't like, if something awful happens to them. I find that I am not very patient with lots of omnis, because I am under the impression that I am an ordinary person, and if I can see the light, they have no excuses not to see the light too.

When a person who is filled not just with compassion, but passion, too, this passion can easily transform into rage. The presence of rage does not mean that the person is not compassionate, its just that the rage is taking center stage at the moment, and clouding the person's better nature. After all, if the person was not extraordinarily compassionate to begin with, they would have no reason to feel the rage when they are confonted with the hideous things people with less compassion are doing. It makes me think of a quote I have in my signature at yet another forum, which is "Compassion does not become hypocritical just because it cannot be practiced absolutely", and similarly, it does not disappear when someone is feeling angry. Its still there. The anger just makes it temporarily invisible.

Strong feelings of this nature are difficult, and perhaps even dangerous, to suppress. My belief is that we must allow ourselves to feel and acknowledge whatever we are feeling freely, without guilt or shame, but we must never allow ourselves to act on feelings when that action will lead to harming another.

I don't think my veganity is responsible for my compassion. I started out that way, and it led to veganity. Of my entire omni family, I am the most spiritual, and I don't think this is a coincidence. What is spiritual to me is that which cannot be experienced by our physical senses, because it is not of this material world. I think of it as some sort of continuum that links all that has life. We damage it when we harm, and we all feel the damage, even those who cause the least. In fact, those who cause the least probably feel the most.

People who fill their lives with the products of daily suffering and death are harming their own spirits, and the spiritual continuum too, not just their physical bodies, and our planet. I think that in time even a person who is not vegan for ethical reasons may be able to reach a stage of enlightenment that cannot ever be available to the most devoutly spiritual omni, simply by virtue of eliminating the negative influence caused by being so intimately involved with deliberate, unnecessary killing. Spirituality is not a necessity when trying to adopt a vegan lifestyle. The highest levels of spiritual enlightenment, on the other hand, cannot be reached without living according to the vegan principle of doing the least harm.

[Abrennan]

I agree

the true test of compassion not being that you can show it to your friends, but that you can show it to your enemies.

this is amongst the teaching of the Buddha. Buddhists believe that you cannot have compassion for someone and not for another, that's not compassion. If you like people because they do what you like thatis not compassion, in a way it could be selfishness

"I don't think my veganity is responsible for my compassion. I started out that way, and it led to veganity. "

I feel that describes me also. That's why I can be a compassonate vegan and not a ratbag vegan.

There;s more in your post I would like to explore, I'll be back later to do it:blinkwave:

[Oracl]

Spirituality is not a necessity when trying to adopt a vegan lifestyle. The highest levels of spiritual enlightenment, on the other hand, cannot be reached without living according to the vegan principle of doing the least harm.
That statement I really like. :agree: :thumbsup:

I don't think my veganity is responsible for my compassion. I started out that way, and it led to veganity.
I too was compassionate before I was vegan. The difference was that I thought it was OK to 'use' animals or their products as long as we humans treated them humanely. :bhead: :rolleyes: That's what changed when I became vegan, I no longer believed we had the right to 'use' animals at all.

[Abrennan]

"Strong feelings of this nature are difficult, and perhaps even dangerous, to suppress. My belief is that we must allow ourselves to feel and acknowledge whatever we are feeling freely, without guilt or shame, but we must never allow ourselves to act on feelings when that action will lead to harming another."

I think we spend a lot of time cultivating feelings. I have heard that cultivating negative feelings can have effect on your body and your mind. I have heard that the opposite is true, cultivating positive feelings has a beneficial effect on your body and your mind.


" I think that in time even a person who is not vegan for ethical reasons may be able to reach a stage of enlightenment that cannot ever be available to the most devoutly spiritual omni, simply by virtue of eliminating the negative influence caused by being so intimately involved with deliberate, unnecessary killing. Spirituality is not a necessity when trying to adopt a vegan lifestyle. The highest levels of spiritual enlightenment, on the other hand, cannot be reached without living according to the vegan principle of doing the least harm."

That seems to be one of the points behind the ahimsa principle.

[Rainbow]

The animals which were once farmed in open terrain only even tried to harm the farmer if provoked by fear (perhaps of the unknown or pain).
These same species are now given little chance to sense their natural lifestyle and yet they still don't attack.
Why should humans take their liberty and lives so selfishly?

I do not have a faith, but my instincts told me that butchers shops were evil:lech: from the first time I was taken into one. After which point I avoided eating dead flesh as much as possible. I was the first vegetarian in my family.

[Bowwowmeow]

I think we spend a lot of time cultivating feelings. I have heard that cultivating negative feelings can have effect on your body and your mind. I have heard that the opposite is true, cultivating positive feelings has a beneficial effect on your body and your mind.

Yes, my Pa (grampa) believed that too, but it only went so far for me, because some of my feelings seem unavoidable. But he never distinguished between spontaneous feeling and cultivated feeling. Neither have I until now. I guess I am mostly spontaneous in my feelings, whilst it seems that others may be putting more effort into maintaining feelings that should be let go once they are experienced. I can't help reacting with anger at certain things, and I think that trying to suppress such feeling would do more harm in the long run. But I would agree that trying to cultivate that spontaneous feeling beyond its natural lifespan would be very damaging and unproductive.
Thanks for that, Antony. You have given me a new way of seeing things. :excited:

[Bowwowmeow]

I do not have a faith, but my instincts told me that butchers shops were evil:lech: from the first time I was taken into one. After which point I avoided eating dead flesh as much as possible. I was the first vegetarian in my family.
No, neither do I Rainbow. But I suspect you are spiritual, or you wouldn't have an instinct about the evil of killing.

[Rainbow]

No, neither do I Rainbow. But I suspect you are spiritual, or you wouldn't have an instinct about the evil of killing.
Maybe so - I know I had more faith in non-human animals than the average child before my teens. Not a lot's changed since. :laugh:

[Soynut]

Well, I know I have a deeper spiritual connection with animals after becoming vegan. I liked animals before, but didn't really LOVE them. Now I get excited about the ducks in the park and have to greet every dog I see! It's a wonderful feeling, though, to welcome this other half of the earth's population.:wave: Makes me wonder what planet I was on before???
I definitely think animals can feel when someone respects and appreciates them and they act accordingly, giving us lots of love back.

I guess my point is that love IS spiritual, and by including more species into our circle of compassion, we become more enlightened and conscious.

[Soynut]

It's easy to be compassionate for those we like, but very difficult to be compassionate for those we do not like.

any thoughts?

:whistle:

As a vegan I think I practice compassion for people who's actions I strongly dislike on a everyday basis. My whole family is omni, my best friend, most of the people in my life....

[my3labs]

When I think of spirituality I immediately think of religion and interestingly enough, since being vegan I've become less enthralled with religion than ever before.

But, to focus on sprituality as a non religious state of mind:
I too, believe that I've always had a different outlook than most people about animals and how they should be treated. For most of my life I wanted to be vegetarian but thought it would be really difficult and maybe even unhealthy. I thought that I would have to eat cheese all the time and while I loved the stuff, I knew it wasn't good for me.
Since being vegan, I feel much more in tune and insync with the earth and the animals. I see everything differently now. I feel like everything that I do has an effect greater than most people ever question. I think that most humans don't question driving their cars, eating dead flesh, cleaning their house, washing their hair, etc. They don't think twice about the consequences and/or where those products came from or what happened to get them those products.
I think that vegans are much more environmentally conscious and don't believe that humans are superior to all other creatures simply by being human.
I think I've always felt a connection to earth and animals but since being vegan, it is much more pronounced.
In general, I would say that vegans are more spiritual than omni's.

[Bowwowmeow]

Since being vegan, I feel much more in tune and insync with the earth and the animals.
Me too. :agree:
I have always believed that humans were meant to be vegan, and when a person switches to a vegan lifestyle, they become in tune with their true natures. When you are in tune with your true self, I think it naturally follows that you would become in tune with everything else. In fact, I don't think a person could be in tune with the earth if they were not in tune with themselves first. :)

[Phoenix]

Me too. :agree:
I have always believed that humans were meant to be vegan, and when a person switches to a vegan lifestyle, they become in tune with their true natures. When you are in tune with your true self, I think it naturally follows that you would become in tune with everything else. In fact, I don't think a person could be in tune with the earth if they were not in tune with themselves first. :)
Well said. :psmooch:

[Bowwowmeow]

:updn: Thank you Phoenix! :nanakiss:

[Gliondrach]

I don't know about being more spiritual but I think that ethical vegans are more likely to be more compassionate than anyone else. And I agree with what Faux said about compassion and passion going together. The angler doesn't get angry at the suffering of a fish because he doesn't care about the fish.

[Boyana]

It was great to read from all of you!Thank you!:smile2::stir:

[Oracl]

Hi Boyana! :wave: Welcome to the forum. :)

[Tails4wagging]

I think we vegans are very sensitive and caring.

[goodeone]

I am a christian as well as a vegan. As a christian i should have compassion for all living things that includes meat eaters and vivesectors. I admit i struggle with this It is far easier for me to have sompassion for animals than people. I do not however limit myself to vegan friends only because i do not know any other vegans! I know one vegetarian and he is not a christian my other friend is not vegan/vegetarian but he is a christian. I sometimes feel split between the two.

[Soynut]

:Hi and welcome.

I was a nurse for 28 yrs mostly in paediatrics, so, to me its possible to care for both human and animal, unless I hear of humans abusing animals. Then I dont feel compassion to them.
:thumbsup: Now that's nice to share when people say that "vegans don't care about humans".... which I hear WAY too often and I find it's the biggest argument against us. One time someone asked me why I was caring about chickens when children are suffering in Iraq - my answer was "why not care about all of them"... I yet have to meet a vegan who is pro-war, pro-death penalty etc.... As far as I understand veganism is more than just avoiding animal products, it's a philosophy of compassion for all living things including humans. I think almost every religion has an element of this, but don't go far enough IMO.

[Oracl]

II consider we vegans speak out and are advocates for the innocent that cannot stand up for themselves. This includes children and animals.
:agree:

[Bowwowmeow]

I remember a few years ago, doing a stall giving out leaflets against vivisection and a couple of women with a kiddie in a pushchair walked past telling us we should concentrate on childrens courses instead of animals.
Ask them for leaflets about their favorite child charities. That'll shut them up fast too. Unless they've actually got some. Then you can work out a trade. ;)

[Oracl]

:lightbulb: :agree:

[Gliondrach]

Yes, a good idea. BWM is in the running for the annual Nitram Nagev Good Ideas Award.

[HOHUM]

I'm certain people who don't consume other sentient beings are more spiritual than omnivores. With more understanding of the animals' spirits/souls, comes more gentleness, more understanding and more appreciation of ALL life. Many exalted souls have said that if the world were vegan, it would be a different place. Why? For the very same reasons i've outlined above. Vegan = Spiritual.
TofuBuddha