Very tired Bunny

[Bunny]

I posted this in the other place too, just to compare responses!

Hello Everyone :)

I have tried on and off to be vegan for a couple of years now. For the last month I have been utterly perfect. It's like something has just clicked and all of a sudden the obstacles in my life have not seemed to matter and I've just switched. I don't think I could ever go back to veggie now.

Anyway, my problem is this. I am exhausted all the time. I have massive water retention all of a sudden (like, I push into my leg and get a big dip that lasts for quite a while afterwards) and I feel like no sleep will ever refresh me. I am eating better than I ever have before. I cook everything from scratch and make nice food. I have an organic veg box delivered every week and make sure I always have a good amount of protein. I take the vegan society VEG1 supplement and eat things like nuts and seeds regularly to make sure I am eating well.

I am going to go to the doctor, but I don't want it all blamed on being a freaky vegan as I don't think it is because of that. I want to be taken seriously as a patient with a problem, rather than passed off as a weirdo who should just "eat properly".

Had anyone else experienced anything like this? Could it be the change in diet and I just need time to adjust? I can't think of anything lacking diet wise, but maybe there is something obvious I am missing.

It could even be just because of work... ????


Also, any tips on how to get a doctor to not blame everything on diet?!!!

Sleepy bunny

[1vegan]

Anyway, my problem is this. I am exhausted all the time.

This could be due to serveral things.

It could be something physical, or maybe something mental.

Your doctor should have some bloodwork done, and check for iron deficiency, b12 and thyroid function. (imho)

Another possibility could be that now you're living "healthy/clean", that your body is starting to "detox" which could make you feel not that good?

[1vegan]

I am going to go to the doctor, but I don't want it all blamed on being a freaky vegan as I don't think it is because of that. I want to be taken seriously as a patient with a problem, rather than passed off as a weirdo who should just "eat properly".

Depending on how your doctor is like, you could either:

- don't mention the veganism but just say you eat well

- just let the comments about eating slide or fall on deaf ears? (don't know how to say that in English)
So, if there is comment on how you're missing things, ask on which test the conclusion is that you would be missing certain things, do listen to the comments but ignore the meat/dairy suggestions and research here or on the internet how to get the stuff that you might not get enough off.

So, if you're low on iron, just let the doc babble about meat, it doesn't matter. If you can't find info on (for instance) how to get iron in a vegan meal, we'll get you all the info you need :)

[thevegantwins]

Another issue could be the time of year. It is darker for longer now. Have you ever suffered from S.A.D (seasonal affect disorder)? Many people are sensitive to the change of season. Also, as 1vegan noted, some people do have a detox period once going vegan. That certainly could impact your health.

[1vegan]

Think of the other aspects in your life at the moment : stressful job, stressful court case, juggling kids and relationship and work etc. Perhaps you are just physically and emotionally exhausted and its coming out in this way?

Excellent point I think. Dealing with stress, or pushing away stressful thoughts can be very exhausting.

[Gliondrach]

Lots of good advice above.

Patrick Holford's New Optimum Nutrition Bible says that water retention could be an intolerance to wheat. Are you eating more of that? Or a lack of essential fatty acids. Or too much sodium. Quercetin could help, he says.

If you do need a diuretic, it might be better to take a herbal one. Dandelion, for instance contains potassium, whereas most pharmaceutical ones don't. So you end up losing potassium along with the water when you take them. But always consult a medical herbalist before taking herbs for health conditions - especially if you are taking drug company things.

[Bunny]

Wow! Fantastic responses - thank you everyone :)

Another possibility could be that now you're living "healthy/clean", that your body is starting to "detox" which could make you feel not that good?

That's a thought. I hadn't really thought too much about that. I've done a bit of googling and it seems that may be a common response. It would make sense - this is the healthiest I've ever eaten I think!

How old are you?.

Dont just think you health probs are due to being vegan. Do see your doc and get a blood profile done. Being vegan and eating sensibly your blood profile should be fine (mine is).

In the meantime eat plenty of spring greens and loads of stuff with Vit B12 in.

Look in mirror and drop down your lower eyelid, is it pale or red?. If pale you maybe be anaemic . Are your periods regular, are they heavy?. So it could be a range of things going on.
Get your bloods done, thats your first move.

I am 31. I have been faintly anaemic before I became vegan, probably due to heavy bleeding, so that may also be worth checking out.

Depending on how your doctor is like, you could either:

- don't mention the veganism but just say you eat well

- just let the comments about eating slide or fall on deaf ears? (don't know how to say that in English)
So, if there is comment on how you're missing things, ask on which test the conclusion is that you would be missing certain things, do listen to the comments but ignore the meat/dairy suggestions and research here or on the internet how to get the stuff that you might not get enough off.

So, if you're low on iron, just let the doc babble about meat, it doesn't matter. If you can't find info on (for instance) how to get iron in a vegan meal, we'll get you all the info you need

They are fabulous suggestions! Thank you! I think I worry too much about what other people might say. :)

If you feel you are eating properly I maybe wouldnt make a big thing about mentioning the vegan diet anyway. Think of the other aspects in your life at the moment : stressful job, stressful court case, juggling kids and relationship and work etc. Perhaps you are just physically and emotionally exhausted and its coming out in this way?

Again, I hadn't thought about that... I feel quite dim now! Thanks again. Perhaps I should relax more. I'll go to the doc too, just to be sure, but this is fab.

Another issue could be the time of year. It is darker for longer now. Have you ever suffered from S.A.D (seasonal affect disorder)? Many people are sensitive to the change of season. Also, as 1vegan noted, some people do have a detox period once going vegan. That certainly could impact your health.

I've never suffered from SAD. I have heard of it, but never thought about it before. I have moved up north, so it is a bit darker. I don't feel down particularly, but it could still have an effect.

Patrick Holford's New Optimum Nutrition Bible says that water retention could be an intolerance to wheat. Are you eating more of that? Or a lack of essential fatty acids. Or too much sodium. Quercetin could help, he says.

If you do need a diuretic, it might be better to take a herbal one. Dandelion, for instance contains potassium, whereas most pharmaceutical ones don't. So you end up losing potassium along with the water when you take them. But always consult a medical herbalist before taking herbs for health conditions - especially if you are taking drug company things.

Very good advice! I have wondered about the wheat thing. I have been loathe to properly consider it as I love brag so much, but maybe I should... :(


Thanks everyone. I tried coding in the quotes, so if they are crap that'll be why!

[Gliondrach]

I love brag so much,





;)

[Raven]

I find i get tired when i eat more because my tummy gets bloated and i feel all crap. I eat small amounts now days and it seems to work quite well. Hope you get on at the doctors ok.

[Oracl]

Sorry I didn't respond before. I think that some form of detoxification is very likely part of the problem. When I went vegan I was a 'cheeseaholic' and the sudden change in diet did nasty things to my body: intense migraines (which I had never had before) upset stomach (really upset, I won't go into details!!) and a feeling of being a bit out of sorts. It took me a couple of weeks or more to get through this. :updn:

[Bunny]

Thanks for those ideas Puffin and Oracl.... I don't know at all :(

I have finally got an appointment for Saturday. I'll let you know how I get on. :)

VEry tired today :(

[alisont]

Sorry I didn't respond before. I think that some form of detoxification is very likely part of the problem. When I went vegan I was a 'cheeseaholic' and the sudden change in diet did nasty things to my body: intense migraines (which I had never had before) upset stomach (really upset, I won't go into details!!) and a feeling of being a bit out of sorts. It took me a couple of weeks or more to get through this. :updn:

Only just reading the last few posts Bunny but hope the appointment goes ok Sat.

Oracl - I was exactly the same when I went vegan I loved cheese (idea of that now - yuck!) but I seemed to take 2 weeks of detoxing off cheese - bad skin, headaches,tiredness and bad stomach but after that I seemed better and felt healthier.

Patrick Holfords books - Ive found these very useful, my Mums had his books since I was little. I had food intollerance tests (York nutritional labs) done when I was veggie as I had really bad IBS symptoms/tiredness - they said I was very intollerant to egg whites and cashews and intollerant to dairy and bananas! Id used soya milk for years as cows milk did not suit me but still ate cheese/some dairy products, I know if i eat cashews now I get very sluggish/tired and wheezy so do avoid them.

My doctor did raise his eyebrows when I gave him a copy of the nutritional tests - but he did say a vegan diet was a healthy one!

I do hope you feel better soon:thumbsup:

[Bunny]

I will do! Thank you :)

[Bunny]

Only just reading the last few posts Bunny but hope the appointment goes ok Sat.

Oracl - I was exactly the same when I went vegan I loved cheese (idea of that now - yuck!) but I seemed to take 2 weeks of detoxing off cheese - bad skin, headaches,tiredness and bad stomach but after that I seemed better and felt healthier.

Patrick Holfords books - Ive found these very useful, my Mums had his books since I was little. I had food intollerance tests (York nutritional labs) done when I was veggie as I had really bad IBS symptoms/tiredness - they said I was very intollerant to egg whites and cashews and intollerant to dairy and bananas! Id used soya milk for years as cows milk did not suit me but still ate cheese/some dairy products, I know if i eat cashews now I get very sluggish/tired and wheezy so do avoid them.

My doctor did raise his eyebrows when I gave him a copy of the nutritional tests - but he did say a vegan diet was a healthy one!

I do hope you feel better soon:thumbsup:

Thanks Alison :) I have wanted the York tests for ages, but they are a bit too expensive for me at the moment. Something like £250 for what I want:( They are supposed to be fab though. I hope there is something wrong, if that doesn't sound too weird. I'd love to be told "It's _____" and then it is cureable. Mostly I get "WE don't know. Carry on suffering!" Bah! Will keep you posted :)

[alisont]

Thanks Alison :) I have wanted the York tests for ages, but they are a bit too expensive for me at the moment. Something like £250 for what I want:( They are supposed to be fab though. I hope there is something wrong, if that doesn't sound too weird. I'd love to be told "It's _____" and then it is cureable. Mostly I get "WE don't know. Carry on suffering!" Bah! Will keep you posted :)

I have to say the York test was good, but yes very expensive, parents did pay for the test for me 3 years ago, and It found 4 things egg,dairy, cashews and bananas (annoying they test for lots of meats and fish should have vegetarian/vegan test) Im glad i had the test as it did help me make that final move to being vegan:) I understand what you mean Bunny - hope you find out whats causing your tiredness and then begin to feel better soon:)

[Oracl]

...hope you find out whats causing your tiredness and then begin to feel better soon:)
:agree: :colors:

[Gliondrach]

Does any of the info below sound familiar - do you have cyclic water retention?

Neuroendocrine changes: Abnormalities of neurohypophyseal function has always been suspected in CFS patients. Indeed, abnormal water excretion, idiopathic cyclic oedema, sleep disorder, irregular menstrual cycles, fluctuations in weight and autonomic symptoms in CFS patients led to an extensive evaluation of multiple neuroendocrine axes and testing for the anterior and posterior pituitary functions. These showed a variable subsensitivity of CFS patients to vasopressin, supersensitivity to serotonin (and possibly to acetylcholine and dopamine) but most consistently, a hypoactive hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis (18). This hypoactive HPA axis is considered the basis for poor stress response (“cowering response”) in CFS patients and is also responsible for the generation of pro-inflammatory cytokines that may exacerbate symptoms like asthma (59). Chocolate craving is another interesting symptom seen in approximately a third of all CFS patients (usually women) some of whom also report mood changes dependent on daylight exposure similar to the patients with seasonal affective disorder, a condition caused by low serotonin levels (60). In summary, the neurological symptoms of chronic fatigue syndrome appear to be multifocal, almost exclusively central and autonomic with some peripheral features. These symptoms are not uniform and in a given case, all the symptoms, including fatigue, may fluctuate in their severity. This variability of symptoms in CFS forms the basis of the experience of “good days” and “bad days” reported by an average patient. The fluctuation of symptoms, including fatigue, is the hallmark of CFS.

http://www.geocities.com/tcjrme/fundamentals6.html

[Bunny]

Wow - thanks gliondrach :) That sounds a LOT like me..... I will mention it all to the doc tomorrow. Thank you :)

[Gliondrach]

My pleasure. I hope it is sorted out soon.

[alisont]

Hope today goes ok Bunny:)

[Bunny]

thanks everyone :) I went to the doctor and he is referring me for some tests. I have to go and get bloods done next week. I was just reading in the nutrition part of "Another Dinenr is Possible" that Soya can deplete the body of iodine and I have been having a tonne of soya. I will try and use other stuff too, just in case that helps.

I'll keep you posted :)

[Gliondrach]

It's not a good idea to eat tons of soya. Especially not the fake meats type.

I take a kelp tablet containing 150 micro grams of iodine.

I have a couple of PDFs about soya and thyroid function saved in My Documents but I don't have the website address for them. But I have found a good source about thyroid and soya in the first link below. The other one gives a lot of info about soya.

www.soyconnection.com/upload/SCNv14n3.pdf

www.pasoybean.org/ConsumerInfo/soyfoodsguide07.pdf

[Bunny]

Brilliant - thanks Gliondrach. Interesting reading. I think, it is just that SOy has been so easy for me to switch to that I haven't concentrated on other alternatives. I have had a lot of Soy every day and I think I should concentrate on having other stuff as well.

:)