Compassion and Empathy

[Bowwowmeow]

Are compassion and empathy qualities we are born with, or without, as the case may be, or are they taught?

I have seen a lot of discussion elsewhere lately about, for example, not punishing murderers and torturers because they will never learn the compassion for others that they obviously lack, by being punished for their wrongdoing.

Can those who have no regard for life and freedom be taught this? Especially after they have lived their lives according to the sociopathic tenet that everything and everyone else exist only as means to the ends of the sociopath?

I have grave misgivings as to the possibility that most people can be taught to be compassionate and empathetic, if they are not already, mostly because in my own experience, which is all I have to go on, I was born with whatever measure of compassion and empathy I needed to refuse to view nonhuman animals as non-persons. Indeed, it seems to me that it would have been logically impossible for me to have been taught a greater level of compassion, by my parents, than that which they possessed, since they never shared my views about animals anyway.

This is perplexing the hell out of me, and I want to start this thread, not as a debate, but to see what other people here think about where their compassion and empathy for animals comes from, and whether anyone has had successful experience in teaching real compassion and empathy to someone who clearly lacked it.

I do want to add that though compassion and empathy are qualities I value in my own self, I do not feel that it is necessary for all people to share them, in order to still respect the right of all animals not to be viewed as property. There are still plenty of racists in the world, for example, but they still have to respect the legal rights of those they hate. Of course, individuals still commit crimes against others, and it seems to me that if they were people of compassion, they would not commit these crimes. But if you are not a person of compassion, how can you become one? Is it even possible?

[Gliondrach]

I think people can learn compassion. I think that it begins with some personal insight into how others can suffer. It might need to be compared with your own suffering - to realise that others can feel the suffering that you have felt and to know that they will have found it as unpleasant as you did.

I think even the worst of humans could, in the right circumstances, begin to feel compassion - as long as they are physically able to have such feelings. I'm not sure what the right circumstances would be, though. They might be different for each person. But I think that they would have to be able to compare some personal suffering to that which others suffer. It wouldn't have to be the same type of suffering as long as it was suffering.

[Oracl]

I think people can learn compassion. :agree: If not, how did someone like Howard Lyman change so dramatically? He might have originally been motivated by health concerns but now he calls himself vegan and I think I read somewhere that even his cat is vegan. He must think very differently now and be motivated by compassion in a way that he could never have been as a cattle rancher. :shakehead:

[Soynut]

Wow, interesting topic. I think change is possible for people who are non-compassionate out of ignorance and just go along with how things are and who are products of their upbringing and environment. With the right education and new experiences their view of things can change dramatically. More often than not, major events in a person's life such as becoming a parent, getting to know and love an animal, a disability or life threatening illness, can change a person completely in the compassion department. I've seen it happen many times.:)

As for psychopaths who ENJOY the torture and suffering of other beings, sorry, there's no hope for change there.

[Soynut]

I think people can learn compassion. :agree: If not, how did someone like Howard Lyman change so dramatically? He might have originally been motivated by health concerns but now he calls himself vegan and I think I read somewhere that even his cat is vegan. He must think very differently now and be motivated by compassion in a way that he could never have been as a cattle rancher. :shakehead:

Howard Lyman is a great guy in person too.;) He was definitely a product of his environment, but who later took a 180 turn after some major life events.:thumbsup:

[Bowwowmeow]

I think people can learn compassion. :agree: If not, how did someone like Howard Lyman change so dramatically? He might have originally been motivated by health concerns but now he calls himself vegan and I think I read somewhere that even his cat is vegan. He must think very differently now and be motivated by compassion in a way that he could never have been as a cattle rancher. :shakehead:
I don't know his story, but he may be vegan because of ethical consistency rather than having feeling for his fellow beings.

But what about YOU guys? I don't think there is anyone here, who posts regularly anyway, who is vegan for reasons other than compassion, so tell me where you got your sense of empathy from. Were you born with it? Did you learn it? Did you have someone you looked up to who set a good, compassionate example, or did you instinctively identify with other animals?

In case anyone is worried, I'm not trying to set up "I'm a better vegan than you because of X" categories. It was instinctual with me, and therefore I am actually filled with despair that people, for whom it is not inborn, may never learn it. So I am hoping to understand people whose experiences were different from mine. There is an interesting topic at another forum about getting people to change, that made me think of this thread again.

[Soynut]

I've never been a cold rock, but I became much more compassionate towards other human beings after I went through some extremely difficult times in my own life, and I became more aware of animals' feelings after I got my dog after the age of thirty. It took me many years to get where I am today. Many people do change, it's part of living an examined life. My brothers are compassionate too, so there might be a genetic component as well, but they're far from vegan.

[my3labs]

I think it might be both (learned and genetic). My childhood was filled with my immediate family members bringing in injured birds, mice, cats, etc., but...my dad hunted and would capture pigeons to keep as pets. I remember hating the fact that my dad could go out and kill innocent creatures but at the same time, he would help us nurture an injured bird.
Perhaps my compassion came from seeing (and being forced to eat) a hunted deer but also helping sick and injured animals. Maybe from an early age I saw that as hypocritical but couldn't put my finger on it.

[Tails4wagging]

This is a 'nature or nurture' question isnt it.

I personally have grown up in a family that is interested in all things nature and love of all animals.

My dad was a passionate animal lover so was my mum. I do think that compassion and empathy could be in the genes as well.

Both myself and brother was taught never to kill anything and to enjoy what nature had in store for us.

As a child if I showed fear of a spider for instance, my dad used to say 'its more scared of you than you are of it' .

A friend adopted two young boys from a very abusive biological family and the eldest had severe problems for a couple of years, he even sexually abused his brother like his biological father had to them.

What I find sad is my friend and hubby were not animal lovers at all, now the eldest adopted son who still has a few problems is training to be a butcher!!.

I find that very worrying!!!.

So if my friend and hubby had some pets when these boys were growing up I think it would have helped towards bonding and a animal to love.

In that case it must be nurture rather than nature.

[Soynut]

This is a 'nature or nurture' question isnt it.


As a child if I showed fear of a spider for instance, my dad used to say 'its more scared of you than you are of it' .

That's really cute, Tails4wagging.

[Tails4wagging]

Yes and I still use that now, if someone is scared of any creature.

[Oracl]

Yes and I still use that now, if someone is scared of any creature.
I find it doesn't work so well for saltwater crocodiles, here in Oz!! ;) :laugh:

[Tails4wagging]

I find it doesn't work so well for saltwater crocodiles, here in Oz!! ;) :laugh:

How do you know, have you tried it?. :).

They may well attack out of fear?. Bless 'em.

[Oracl]

They may well attack out of fear?. Bless 'em.
I think they, quite rightly, just think of us humans as food! :yum:

[Tails4wagging]

I think they, quite rightly, just think of us humans as food! :yum:

Because your vegan they may not want you..:) You wouldn t smell right for them. so go on try it?.:updn: